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  #1  
Old 24th April 2008, 01:36 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Default The descent into Hell

When Christ died, His human soul, united to His Divine Nature, visited both Purgatory and Hell.

Now the Most Blessed Trinity is present everywhere: in Heaven, in Purgatory, in Hell, and in this world. Jesus as God is already present even in Hell. Therefore, it is not inconceiveable that He would visit Hell with His human soul.

Jesus visited Hell, not to be punished, but so that even the souls in Hell would know the Saviour of all mankind, whom they had rejected by rejecting goodness, truth, etc. Thus Scripture says:

[Romans]
{14:11} For it is written: "As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bend to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."

[Philippians]
{2:8} He humbled himself, becoming obedient even unto death, even the death of the Cross.
{2:9} Because of this, God has also exalted him and has given him a name which is above every name,
{2:10} so that, at the name of Jesus, every knee would bend, of those in heaven, of those on earth, and of those in hell [infernorum],
{2:11} and so that every tongue would confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.

Even in hell, the souls there know and admit that Jesus Christ is the Lord of all Creation, of heaven and of earth and of hell.

In His descent into Purgatory, Jesus freed the souls there who died prior to His Ascension to Heaven, so that they could now enter Heaven. But this occurs beyond Time, so that someone who died thousands of years earlier did not have to wait thousands of years in Purgatory. Thus no one enters Heaven without knowing Christ first.

The Limbo of the Fathers refers to an upper level of Purgatory, where those who died prior to Christ await his death, Resurrection, and Ascension, so that they can enter Heaven.
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Old 24th April 2008, 03:06 PM
Bible Apprentice Bible Apprentice is offline
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Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
But this occurs beyond Time, so that someone who died thousands of years earlier did not have to wait thousands of years in Purgatory.

I am truly scientifically challenged, and so I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the "beyond time" thing. Is the real concept of "beyond time" still linear, or does it mean that all events are then happening at the same simultaneously. Also, did the souls in purgatory know of the birth of Jesus, his ministry, his death?
Can somone help me out with this? Thanks.

Peace
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Old 24th April 2008, 03:30 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by Bible Apprentice View Post
I am truly scientifically challenged, and so I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the "beyond time" thing. Is the real concept of "beyond time" still linear, or does it mean that all events are then happening at the same simultaneously. Also, did the souls in purgatory know of the birth of Jesus, his ministry, his death?

Actually, Purgatory has a type of time, just not the time of earth. So in Purgatory, events are linear. You atone for the sins of your life (those that were not atoned for in this life) in order, one after another. You increase in holiness and wisdom and understanding. Once these sins are atoned for, those who waited in the Limbo of the Fathers had to wait for Christ, but not for the length of time from their deaths on earth to Christ's Ascension.

Heaven is beyond time, since the Blessed in Heaven are with God who is Eternity. In Heaven, there is no absolute ordering of before and after.

In Hell, there is a type of time, in which events are linear, one after another.
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Old 24th April 2008, 05:36 PM
Bible Apprentice Bible Apprentice is offline
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Thanks Ron, that helps.
Did Jesus at any time experience what the souls in hell experience? Obviously His Divine Nature is omniscient and omnisapient, but did His human soul feel the suffering of damnation? Thanks.
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Old 24th April 2008, 06:43 PM
Archangel Michael Archangel Michael is offline
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Thanks Ron.
As for me, I think grasping the notion of time vrs. eternity can be difficult for some due to the fact we are creatures living in time and have yet not entered into eternity. Should be interesting when we enter eternity.
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Old 24th April 2008, 09:47 PM
Brother Brother is offline
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I’m thinking that it could be possible that in the Eternity of the New Earth (after the resurrection of the death in soul, body and spirit), a person, let’s say, you can go and visit Adam’s house and have a nice chat with him alone and then, if you wish, instantly appear “miles and miles” away from the place you were to visit and talk to Jesus, Abraham or Mary (just as Jesus appeared at will to the Apostles after His resurrection); but at the same moment while you were conversing with them, many other people can be doing the same similar thing you were doing (visiting their homes and talking to them), and it could appear to each individual that they are alone with Adam, Jesus or Mary when in fact, all those visits could be occurring at the same moment because as Ron said, there is no order of before, after, etc.

Garabandalg was talking about being able to go "back in time" on another topic, I think it may not be possible this earth, but I think it may be possible on the New Earth to do so in another sense without dissorting any event of past present of future because there is actually "no time" there. We'll be so happy because we can no longer be worried about time or say "look at the time".

I also think that no elder people can be found there, only young vigorous people, even Abraham will look young (about 33 years of earthy appearance – no corruption at all). My thoughts are just nothing compared to what Heaven can really be, of course, since it's explained comparing with the time known to us.
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Old 24th April 2008, 09:51 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Originally Posted by Bible Apprentice View Post
Thanks Ron, that helps.
Did Jesus at any time experience what the souls in hell experience? Obviously His Divine Nature is omniscient and omnisapient, but did His human soul feel the suffering of damnation? Thanks.

No. He did not experience the punishments of Hell.
He went there as God, who rules even over Hell, not as a resident of Hell.
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Old 24th April 2008, 09:53 PM
Ron Conte Ron Conte is offline
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Iím thinking that it could be possible that in the Eternity of the New Earth (after the resurrection of the death in soul, body and spirit), a person, letís say, you can go and visit Adamís house and have a nice chat with him alone and then, if you wish, instantly appear ďmiles and milesĒ away from the place you were to visit and talk to Jesus, Abraham or Mary (just as Jesus appeared at will to the Apostles after His resurrection); but at the same moment while you were conversing with them, many other people can be doing the same similar thing you were doing (visiting their homes and talking to them), and it could appear to each individual that they are alone with Adam, Jesus or Mary when in fact, all those visits could be occurring at the same moment because as Ron said, there is no order of before, after, etc.

I'm skeptical about this idea.
Certainly Heaven is in Eternity, beyond Time.
But earth, even the new earth, would have to be within Time, I would think, as one of the things that distinguishes it from Heaven.
However, the resurrected Just may well be able, as you say, to evade the restrictions of Time, but only to a limited extent.
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Old 25th April 2008, 12:53 AM
Brother Brother is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Conte View Post
I'm skeptical about this idea.
Certainly Heaven is in Eternity, beyond Time.
But earth, even the new earth, would have to be within Time, I would think, as one of the things that distinguishes it from Heaven.
However, the resurrected Just may well be able, as you say, to evade the restrictions of Time, but only to a limited extent.

Yes Ron, you might be right about it, there has to be a sense of time in the new earth; even though that new time will be different than our current one; people may not worry about it in the sense that one could say that has been for too long in one place or is getting late or too early for something which are imperfections from our current world. In other words and using our current earthy language, it can be said that people in the new earth will feel like they are "at the right place, at the right time, every time".
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Old 25th April 2008, 06:00 AM
Paul Bellett Paul Bellett is offline
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We know from Einstein that "Any object with mass warps the space-time around it".
Therefore I am making the assumption that heaven/purgatory/hell are in parallel universe to ours, but perhaps not containing the same physical mass as we know it, so thereby not subject to space-time restriction laws.

If we examine scripture we know that Jesus ascended into heaven in his Glorified Body, where even when the doors were locked, he suddenly appeared amongst his disciples in the days following his resurrection.
Even during his resurrection the stone physically blocking the exit from his tomb, would not of prevented him from escaping the tomb.
From what I can recall, Ven. Anne Catherine Emmerich in her vision saw Christ depart from the tomb, even before the stone was rolled away by the angels.
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